The Apex Podcast

Apex Interview: Cultivating Community and Support for First-Generation Business Owners

June 27, 2023 • Apex Communications Network

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Can you remember the excitement of earning your very first paycheck? In this captivating episode, Andrew McIntosh from 1stGen and Jan reminisce about their early entrepreneurial ventures, from delivering newspapers to starting a grass-cutting business. These formative experiences shaped their understanding of the power of entrepreneurship and drove them to forge their own path as business owners.

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Speaker 1:

I just realized you're recording me sneaky, sneaky devil.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love it but now?

Speaker 2:

but now there's gonna be this spot where people are gonna get to this like three minutes in and they're like, wow, dude, just spitting the straight facts There's like you mother.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, exactly, i mean, i should have known like you. you prepared me, but you know what happened was I was sitting there like telling the story and I was like I wonder how I would word this different if I knew he was actually. we Wait a second There it is Well played, well played. So let me, let me, let me back up again to answer your question like Did entrepreneurship find me or did I find entrepreneurship? Is that kind of how you were?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so For me, i think it started where it found me When I was a kid, because I didn't. I didn't know any better, but from a young age I started delivering newspapers me and my brother. I was like eight and he was 12, and part of that is Not only getting up early and delivering papers every day, but we actually had to go collect the money at the end of each month From the customers. So I'm like literally an eight-year-old kid Getting comfortable knocking on the doors of these grown-ups and going into their house and asking them to pay up, which was no way, i never realized I was a part of paper routes.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, at least it was where I was that? I assume That's you know I'm a this is this would have been early 90s, and so you get comfortable with, with that, now it helps. You're probably, you know, a cute little kid like, so people aren't gonna Turn you away. But then I did, though, get to experience people who would say like, no, i don't have it right now. You know, can you come back tomorrow or whatever, and so, like having awkward conversations and being a little collections boy. There's a lot to learn from that.

Speaker 2:

You have to say is, that's a big, big newspaper Using cute kids to collect on there. I know right on there Overdue paper route way Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, send their little minions out in the cold to go go talk to these people. But Then from there, once you've collected all of that, now you have to actually physically go into the newspaper building. It was called the news Gazette. This is in the Midwest and The your boss guy or whatever like, collects all of the money, keeps 98% of it for himself and then hands you back your piece, right? We earned like 90 to a hundred dollars a month for doing this. So that was also a learning experience. It's like okay. So I was laying the groundwork, how taxes feel, right. So I learned a lot from that. And then, as I got a little bit older, we started cutting grass for our neighbors, which in itself was was cool. You know you, you get this sense of like all right, cool, i can go. Yeah, it's a little bit of work, but the money's pretty good. You know, i go do this for an hour and then someone gives me 20 bucks and it's just cash. It's like that's, i, like that. I mean, keep doing that.

Speaker 2:

You know, under the table work baby Yeah, and again you don't know with.

Speaker 1:

I was just a kid just doing my thing, but it wasn't just the act of providing the service, but then all these other lessons that you learn along the way. For instance, we had to go knocking on doors asking our neighbors if they wanted us to cut their grass in the first place, and So I'm learning how to Prospect, you know, and I'm learning how to take rejection when people tell me that they're not interested Or that they do it themselves and that it's. It might take a hundred tries before you get somebody who takes you up on it, and then you get there. Usually we were actually using those people's lawnmowers and their Trimmers or whatever to do the job, because it's not like I had a legit lawnmowing business, i'm just a neighborhood kid. But then you learn What happens when this lawnmower doesn't start and they've got old gas or the thing needs oil or you know whatever it is. It's just like Now it's teaching me all of these Unexpected obstacles and how you just have to adapt and overcome this stuff and just figure out a way right. And so then it started with with lawnmowing, and then in the summer and spring and then in the fall We would rake leaves, and in the winter we would shovel snow, and so you just are learning all of these lessons along the way.

Speaker 1:

And I think that that's kind of where entrepreneurship found me. Like I'm becoming a little entrepreneur before I even knew what that word was or what it meant. So then, you know, in my later teenage years is when I've got my first, you know, kind of quote-unquote job Where all of a sudden it's like eight bucks an hour Are you kidding me? like I can go Cut grass and make more than double that if I just do this on my own and I don't have a boss and I don't have to take orders and do it your way and all those other kind of stuff. And it was just like this is kind of a ripoff. I mean, i get that it's consistent And you know how many hours you're gonna have each week and whatever, and that's not the case with entrepreneurship. But I really couldn't get over the fact that like there's such a big difference between what I can earn in an hour's time. So by the time I actually got out of college I'm a I'm a former IT guy by trade. I've been the go-to computer nerd amongst my friends and families from a very, very young age Which also happens to be something that you can earn a pretty decent hourly rate Doing that stuff, especially once you start getting into businesses who rely on these systems. So When I got out of college, i moved to Kentucky and I took a job For this company doing that type of work.

Speaker 1:

But I already knew going into it. I in fact I even daydreamed about what it would be like to own my own business. So at some point that it went from entrepreneurship choosing me To me choosing it, and I don't know exactly when that happened, but I think it was just getting a taste of it, getting a taste of the freedoms that come with it, being able to picture Clearly what life would be like if I went all in on this thing and started building something for myself. Now that could, that could really change the trajectory long term. So I think my that's my very long-winded way of saying both, i think just different stages of life, me and entrepreneurship. We go way back.

Speaker 2:

Right, well, i think it's important to understand, like something that you said right there at the end I think is something that's really important for people to to grasp and because I You spend so much time in this, in this age where there's content everywhere Of people, you know, starting business like being an entrepreneurial, being an entrepreneur is sexy nowadays, right, like it has this, it has this draw to it. you know like, oh, you own a business, it's so cool.

Speaker 1:

That's for people who've never done it before.

Speaker 2:

Exactly That's what I'm saying. So it's so to have had the blessing so early on to You know a lot of the sales people I talked to talk about the Thousand hours that you need to spend getting rejected on cold calls in order to build the skin capable of being a good salesperson. You know like There's people in in HR or admin that are like you know, until you've fielded a hundred Conflicts that you need to resolve, you don't really have the intuition of a of an HR specialist right and so like being able to go out there as a kid and have the entrepreneurial, lean kind of show itself and then you have the opportunity to take it and face those knows the obstacles. The you know I'll check with my wife when she gets home.

Speaker 2:

The You know all of those conversations that happen and then, as well like you're, you have to co collaborate with other kids. You know their peers to help with. You know different parts of the project, or you know It's. It's really there's not a whole lot of difference between like managing a community of peers and friends to make money under the table As like running a business. There's just a little bit of extra paperwork When you're actually running the business and Uncle Sam gets a cut.

Speaker 2:

Fundamentals are the same the fundamentals are exactly the same Whether you're trying to organize a group of people to come over and get a tree cut up so that you can have a bonfire, or Or you're trying to do trash cleanup on your street or you're trying to run a company.

Speaker 2:

You know, you get people together, you align them behind a similar goal, you get them motivated, you have a reward or reward at the end of the thing that you're trying to get done. You know all of those types of principles apply and I think what's so beautiful about that last portion that you Kind of leaned into was because I was able to have these experiences and have that lesson. I was able to bypass this period of, like vision board building, or manifestation, or whatever people call it. Now I was able to very clearly Articulated my head and visualize what life would be like if I pursued entrepreneurship full force. And that's not. That's not a Headspace that everybody can find themselves in when they go to make that transition.

Speaker 2:

For a lot of people or I'm curious, was it? was there a mist in front of that vision at first and then it got clearer over time? Was it just? I've been sitting here thinking about this for, you know, months on end and it's so clear that now I have to take this leap, otherwise you know I'm never gonna do it. Or what was that transition like from? Okay, i know I've been set up with these experiences, i know that I have this vision. I When did that trigger point, kind of be like okay, i'm gonna take a leap and start my own thing, or I need to start building my own community company, whatever that looks like.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So it's interesting because, looking back on it, i feel like all of those things I did as a kid they were. That was kind of a good education for me First hand experience, learning the principles, the fundamentals of providing a service to someone in exchange for money. But none of that actually prepared me for running a business right, cause those are actually two different things. I mean, you have to have those fundamentals to run a successful business, but there's this completely different skill set that you need to develop to run a full-fledged business.

Speaker 1:

And as the first person in my family to start a business, you know we did not grow up sitting around the dinner table talking about everything that you need to run a successful business and to grow one. So I had this vision in my mind before I started a business of providing a service, like I had done throughout my childhood, but in this case it was gonna be IT related support. But you know, it painted this really pretty picture of the financial freedom and the freedom of time that comes with it, and I was looking at it through rose-colored glasses, right, and then got pretty blindsided by quite a few different things that like kept happening And, truthfully, if I had known everything that I was gonna face. If I had known all that in advance, i don't know if I would have gone for it or not.

Speaker 2:

You know, i hear that so often And I personally feel the same way too. And I talk to you. You know, there's this cool line between, like watchpreneur and entrepreneur, right, Is it? one way I've heard it described. And when you're in that watchpreneur stage, like everything looks fantastic, You're like there's no dog shit in the other yard. It's always fertilized.

Speaker 2:

You know, Like the mulch looks great Like you're standing on the other side of the fence and then you jump over and you immediately realize like how much labor your name actually puts into maintaining that bad ass lawn And you're like, whoa, you shit, i thought it was just a little bit of fertilizer dude. I didn't realize it was a whole Underground sprinkler system on timers with two lawn care guys that you employ and you own a mulch factory and, like you, know, all of this stuff that goes into it.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, it's a rude awakening, but would you do it all over again?

Speaker 1:

Oh, 100%, yeah, like no hesitation there at all. And the reason for that is, I think it's like there's probably a theme here where you go into it. I had never heard that term, entrepreneur, but that's. I like that because it instantly gives you an idea of like oh okay, so you just haven't been beat down yet. Your day's coming right. You don't know it but, you're about to get hit by a Mack truck And that's okay right, because I think that that's almost like a riot of passage.

Speaker 1:

That's part of the entrepreneurial experience. Hopefully, though, you can get over what I call the entrepreneurial hump, because when you're first starting out, you've got this like monumental task of you know, kind of giving birth to this business and getting it up out of the ground and building this machine, and you have to do everything, you wear all the hats right, it's all on you to get this thing going, and that's a monumental task. It's like pushing a big, heavy ball up a very, very steep hill right, and what breaks my heart is to think about people who never get over the hump. They never get on the right side of that hill, because if you can stick it out long enough and you persevere long enough and you work hard enough, you'll hit this inflection point where, all of a sudden, things start getting a little bit easier. Customers start coming more easily, profit margins start to grow, you start making more money while working less, and you're building this machine, and you go into this mode where you're actually now spending more time refining the machine than you are trying to get the thing to fire up in the first place.

Speaker 1:

Right, and once that happens, it has a direct impact on your lifestyle, your peace of mind, your freedom of time, freedom of choice who you want to work with. There's no cap on your income. There's like all these things start to congeal at once And then, once that ball's rolling down the hill and you've gotten a taste of that, you're like I would never, ever go back. You know, i mean, if you some strange circumstance and you have to to provide for your family, so be it. Like I respect that. But as long as I have a choice, i would never, never go back, no hesitation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, i love that. And I also love the idea of when your in that process of building, you don't know when that inflection point is going to come And most of the time don't realize that you've passed it until you're so far past it that you're like wait a second. why am I not freaking out right now?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, when did that happen? Yeah?

Speaker 2:

when did that go down? I remember hitting that it was probably year four. You know we've been at this almost six now And I remember one of the best piece of advice just like in line with what you just said there one of the best pieces of advice that I got early, early on. I actually went to a pitching competition and got destroyed at this pitching competition by this investor. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. He said commit to a five year vision and expect it to almost fail at least three times before that five years is up. And That also stayed like held true.

Speaker 2:

But I remember the first time we almost tanked. I was like all right, here's the one out of three, i gotta make it through the first one, you know. And then the second time it happened it wasn't like, oh my God, we suck. It was like all right, this was supposed to happen. It's gonna give us an opportunity to fix things, grow. I'm gonna have to patch holes. I'm gonna have to work on some things internally because you know I'm not the same man that I was when I started the business. I had to. There's a lot of qualities of mine that had to be removed. There's a lot of things I had to learn to know to get to the place where we're at now.

Speaker 2:

But I think that that piece of advice of just like prefacing the shit show and just being saying, hey, commit to it, it doesn't mean that you're wrong just because you fail, even to the point where you like almost crash the company. Like, as long as you have people that are willing to show up and you're willing to put forth the effort, try to make it through those down haul, those down periods, because that's where you learn the most. And to a T, every time we hit those low points, every time I was sitting in my truck sobbing, wondering why the fuck that I quit my nursing job within a month or two. After that point we had pitched a deal at the highest margin that we ever landed or brought on a person or met somebody that connected us to somebody, and then it started moving. And next thing, you know, four years in, after Almo's bankrupting multiple times and that's not everybody's journey, but it's- very true for mine.

Speaker 2:

It's not uncommon. We're four years in now. We have such a strong referral network because people have seen us struggle and they've seen us come back from the struggle that they know that we're gonna be around to take care of them, regardless of what's going on politically, macroeconomically, whatever else. They know that we're scrappy and we've proven that. And so now we're just getting referral on referral on referral from our loyal customer base, and that base grew over the course of those five years. I haven't spent a dime in paid advertising in two years. We run strictly off of referrals and community partners to get our work, and that's because we're just dedicated to the journey and dedicated to the vision.

Speaker 2:

Less so a metric tied to success or like beating yourself up because you're not on some timeline or you read some article, and it's like this 25 year old is making seven figures by working 10 hours a week And you're like, damn well, i'm not doing that, like what's wrong with me? I hate them so much too because you get into your own head, and so if you can get out of that space and stay true to your journey and just keep pushing through your stuff, it's amazing when it'll happen And one day you'll just wake up. At least this is what it feels like for me. One day I woke up and it's like our pipeline was full. I realized that there was no customer conflicts I had to take care of that day. I had one or two meetings and the rest of my day was free for me to actually like work on take, where I want to take the company next, and I was like holy crap. I was like it's happening.

Speaker 2:

This is like I could call my dad right now and have lunch at 11 am on a Wednesday. Yep, there's the three of us. That's so cool.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, and what's awesome to me about that is a couple of things. For starters, the fact that that guy at the pitching competition prepped you for it. Like that's the type of thing I'm talking about when I say, like people who are the first ones in their family to start a business. They don't have their family prepping them for stuff like this, right, so you don't know what to expect And you, like we said earlier, you're going into it with rose color glasses. Reality's quickly going to set you straight. But if you didn't have that kind of as like an anchor to set the expectation, like it's normal to feel like you're going to fail, or to be close to the failure and have to figure out a way out of this, and to have that happen multiple times before you get over that hump, like if you hadn't known that there's a much higher probability that you would have maybe given up because you're like this is I've had a brush with death and I need to just get off of this roller coaster before it kills me right.

Speaker 2:

Oh, yeah, that first time. If I wouldn't have had that as an anchor, I doubt I would have made it through the first quarter line bankruptcy, let alone like the partner exiting the company or anything else. There's just like oh. I would have felt like, oh, this is all my fault, like I just don't know what I'm doing. I shouldn't be an entrepreneur.

Speaker 1:

And that's so dangerous, right, because all of us are susceptible to that, like that self doubt, the imposter syndrome, not knowing what you don't know. You know all of these things and just not having any friends and family that you can talk to that also truly understand right, like they might give you a listening ear, they might be compassionate, but if they haven't been there themselves, they don't really know what to tell you And in fact they might give you the exact wrong advice sometimes.

Speaker 1:

Why don't you just go back to take a day job? then you know.

Speaker 2:

Yep, that's exactly what I was just gonna say, because that's what they know, and it's not any fault of their own. You know Like they're trying to protect you and do what they know how to do. But to your point, like in the entrepreneurial space, sometimes like as an entrepreneur, that's one or two chapters ahead. You can look at somebody's journey and be like yo.

Speaker 2:

You are right at the breaking point If you push three more months you know, something like this could go down, whereas to somebody that's never passed through the abyss, so to speak, or has, like, made it through that rip in the void, they don't know what it looks like on the other side of that wall. So they're just gonna say, well, return to safety and security, because that's your best bet.

Speaker 1:

Yep, i mean, if you were gonna climb, climb Mount Everest, do you want to talk to someone who's never climbed Mount Everest? Or do you want the Sherpa who like lives?

Speaker 2:

up, right. That's a good way to that's a great way to point it out. Yeah, i want the Sherpa. You kidding me. I don't want some some schmuck from, like, the urban side of northern US, right, or what if it's like your best friend?

Speaker 1:

You know someone who loves you and cares about you, but he's never climbed Everest. Are you gonna take advice from him?

Speaker 2:

I'm still schmuck level. If you're trying to give me advice on that, he's like yo, you're right.

Speaker 1:

And so that's just. It is like it, and we also can't see Ourselves and our businesses the way people, our peers can either. Right, you know. So here we are filled with self-doubt and insecurity and anxiety and all these other things. At times, someone else, who, who's been there, done that that's obviously valuable, but who also is not you and They can look at you and look at where your business is and be able to spot the Trajectory that you're on, to be able to tell you, like you said hey, man, give this a few more months, like I can see from here That things are brewing and that this is gonna, this is gonna go, or I See where you're headed and you need to make an adjustment Three degrees this way, because you're about to fall into a pit. Just FYI, right, right, that's where. Yep.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

It makes all the difference.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, i just had a conversation like that with somebody the other day, because they're Riding this roller coaster between you know, when they're selling the work that they execute on, they're not executing on the work, and when they're executing on the work, they're not selling. So they're just like revenue skyrockets and then the tanks, and then a skyrockets and then a tanks. They haven't caught on to that pattern yet. And so we sat down in a conversation yesterday And I said listen, i was like every three months we get on a phone call and you're freaking out about revenue that you're gonna have for next quarter. That was like have you thought, you know? and I explained the idea of kind of Extending the deal length and some pretty technical business stuff. As far as sales goes, they're like oh, that's why I've been experiencing these highs and lows so intensely for the last, you know, six months. They're right, and sometimes you just need it's a natural part of going through the process because you just don't know how to regulate it Yet.

Speaker 2:

It's like a kid getting a new toy you know and kind of not really understanding how to fully play with it yet. But the longer that you kind of you get better at getting the race car to stay on the track instead of running the walls. You know, after you get to play with it a little bit. But revenue is kind of like a new toy. You know when you what it. You can do limitless things with it. You could invest it in yourself, you could take it out, you could buy, get a VA to delegate stuff to. You could buy software, there's like all these cool things you can do with it. So once you learn like, oh, this is not just, i can't just chase this all the time.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

I actually need to, like, bring in a certain amount of it, and then I need to go do this and then, when this number gets too low, i need to go find more of it and it becomes this, this yellow?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I.

Speaker 2:

Just like the pendulum swinging back and forth.

Speaker 1:

You're like.

Speaker 2:

I have no work. I have too much work. I have no work.

Speaker 1:

I have too much work right, and then the financial piece doing the opposite thing right at the same time.

Speaker 1:

I I kind of think of it like playing a piano. You know it takes two hands to play piano If you want to do this properly. But think of how hard it is to control both at the same time and to be able to read Music. You know it's. It's hard enough to like, get used to reading the music and learning how to do it with one hand And then you can switch the other hand. It just takes practice and time to understand how to do both at once and build up that muscle memory and get, Get your brain to where it's. I think regulated is the term that you've you've used and which is which is really good. So Some of that's practice and there's, there's no replacement for that, just time and experience. But then some of it is just people pointing things out to you and suddenly you can look at it differently Or see it clearly, and you know you weren't really going to on your own, at least not for quite a while.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and that's. I love the idea of Like leaning on mentors for that purpose and and realizing that you don't need to find this person. It's like a guru in your space that's been around for 40 years And they're gonna answer all your questions like an oracle on top of a mountain, right?

Speaker 2:

Right most of the valuable mentors that I've found I'm curious about your experience with this are really people that are Either peers building something very similar, or somebody that is like two chapters ahead of me in the process And is able to kind of provide that advice. I do have, like you know, one guy that I call my Yoda. He's actually got an investor that it like ripped me apart on that first Pitch. Oh, same guy you know he's in his 60s. Yeah, he got on the train. I haven't let him get off yet.

Speaker 1:

So I Think that there's value in all of them and you just need to know what to expect from each of them. So Take your Yoda guy you know a lot of those guys are going to bring a ton of valuable experience to the table, and you might be fortunate enough to find one who, just out of the goodness of their heart, you know, want to help you, because there are people out there like that. But a lot of times these so-called gurus you know they have, they have something to sell you. You know what I mean. or even if they're legit, you know they can be very, very expensive And sometimes there's a little bit of a disconnect to depending on how long it's been since they've done what you're doing And what has has changed since then. So I think there's pros and cons there.

Speaker 1:

But then finding somebody who is just a step or two ahead of you, that's useful now in its own way, because this is still fresh for them. Right, they were, they're right there with you. They can help illuminate your path a little bit ahead of where you are today. But they may not know what the long-term vision looks like because they haven't been there yet themselves, right? And then there's your, your person who's not even in the same industry as you And maybe they're, they do a completely different business and they've been at it for as long as you have.

Speaker 1:

But what I love about people like that Is if you get people from all these different industries in a room together and you present one problem, you're you're gonna see one problem getting attacked 12 different ways, right, and so they bring this perspective and this outside the box, thinking that you're not, you're not gonna get either internally Or even from people within your own industry who are a step or two ahead of you.

Speaker 1:

They're attacking it the way that people in that industry do. Sometimes. That completely left field perspective is just like Not only opens a new way for you to think, but it also reveals how other people might think that even aren't even in your, your little sphere there. So I think it's Everybody needs to find Probably more than one area or person They can turn to it for advice and mentorship and and even if it's just a shoulder to cry on or a person to turn to it for advice, even if it's just a shoulder to cry on or listening here, they all are gonna provide value in their own way. You just need to know which pieces to to take away from it.

Speaker 2:

Right. Well, and that's actually, i mean, what you're really One of the key pieces that you're trying to build with first gen, and I think it's probably a great place to kind of jump into the community That you're actually creating, where these types of conversations happen. And, and, if I'm right, what you just kind of explained is something that y'all call the hot seat. That's right, so We maybe just let's rewind a little bit and we can kind of get into the hot seat eventually. But but what is first gen? I mean, you mentioned earlier on in the pod that you know You're passionate about people that don't come for the family of entrepreneurs or it's their first kind of, they're the first person in their family Starting a company. So is that kind of? was that the inspiration for it, or what's the story behind first gen?

Speaker 1:

It is, yeah. So I was the first person in my family to start a business and With that came a lot of uncertainty, right like I told alluded to earlier, i was in for a rough ride and I didn't know it, which maybe I was. Maybe that's a good thing, but the fact is is like I made a lot of costly mistakes Costly not just in terms of money, but costly in terms of time, right Like I didn't know any of the shortcuts, i didn't know some of the basic things that really turned into these big setbacks. And Eventually I was able to hire a business coach, but it wasn't until I had been in business for like six years or so, and I only waited that long, because that's how long it took before I could afford that guy. You know he, he was, he was awesome. I had a wonderful experience that finally gave me all this mentorship, this kind of father figure in a business sense that I had so badly wanted. But it was a lot of money, right, and I had to. I had to go through a lot of trials and tribulations to even get to the point where I could afford somebody like that, but then once I rubbed shoulders with him for a while and Got tremendous value out of it. I couldn't help but think What if I had had access to that from day one? like that would have made such a big difference in my first five years.

Speaker 1:

So Now that I've sold my business which has now been coming up on two years ago, thinking about what I want to do next Being able to help other people who are in the same boat that I was in in 2006 when I started the first ones in their family to start a business, all the anxieties and the uncertainties that come with that. You look at the statistics of how many businesses fail in their first year. Five years, ten years is way too high, and Then people are missing out on the opportunities that entrepreneurship brings because of that, and so my concept is hey, instead of trying to position myself as an expert or a guru and you can pay me as a high-end coach or consultant for your business, how about instead I pull together a group of first-gen entrepreneurs where we can all help each other? So now this is like a peer-to-peer support type of situation where the price point is accessible to everybody, right, and so I'm really kind of rooting for the underdog here.

Speaker 1:

The way I view us, we're the ones who have the card stacked against us.

Speaker 1:

We haven't inherited a business, we don't come from money, we weren't handed this network of valuable connections.

Speaker 1:

You know we don't have the advantages that some other folks do, right, but if you can get a bunch of smart people in a room who each come from their own area of expertise, now, all of a sudden, we can workshop our way through just about anything right.

Speaker 1:

And so this first-gen community that I'm building is designed to now give you back all of those advantages that some of these other folks have. Maybe we can't hand you a bunch of wealth, you know, so that you've got a financial safety net, but we can give you a network of people that you know like and trust, and who understand the challenges that you're going through and who can provide support. They can be that listening ear, the shoulder to cry on, the referral source that you need, the advice or the perspective that you're not going to be able to come up with on your own, because that's not how this works. So that's my concept for this community. It's just a way to help people who are first-gen entrepreneurs to not just survive in their business but hopefully we can all grow together and build these thriving, successful companies.

Speaker 2:

I think creating that space for people and just knowing, hey, i'm building something that previous me would have been really grateful for Exactly So it's a really great way to ground yourself when building community. I'm just applied to be on a speaking panel for the community managers or content marketing summit, and one of the things that I said about that I wanted to bring up topic-wise, or if I was going to be on a panel. You know, something that I would really want to have a conversation about is the intentionality behind building community and how. Just because a bunch of papers and metrics are showcasing that communities are a great way to drive revenue for a company, that we shouldn't turn communities into a commodity And that, yes, by nature of the way that a community does things to a group of people, it builds trust, it creates these things.

Speaker 2:

But as marketers, as business people, a lot of times when we get our hands on something, we tend to ruin it. We drive it into the ground. It's like cool, we can send mail. Awesome, everybody's mailboxes are going to be full of shit.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

You know, same thing with email. Great, we're going to send 40 emails a day, and so it's to allow communities to be what they are, which is, people that create them, people that want to become a part of something bigger people that want to feel like they're a part of something beyond themselves or that they can relate to other people.

Speaker 2:

The business if there is a business opportunity, it'll show itself as the community continues to grow and ask for things. We're noticing that right now with Indie Collective, which is we're about 500 members deep at this point. We have alumni that have been graduated from our cohorts two years, three years. They are still in the community. So now we have elders mentoring younger community members And there's this cool like back and forth going on And they're starting to ask for things that I would have never thought of designing early on in the community process.

Speaker 2:

But I know that the goal is to create a space for people that are on a journey towards independence can have vulnerable conversations about what that journey is like, And then everything that I do is kind of like a byproduct of that And I love I mean that's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on the show. I love when we first started talking and how aligned both of us were around, build the sandbox and then get out of the way, Build the space for the conversations to happen, provide that beacon of leadership from the front and leading by example, with invulnerability and having those conversations. But then allow your members to do what they do and they'll find what they need, Or they'll tell you and ask them. Ask them as much as you can talk to them. Spend time with people just to get on a 30 minute call and don't have any intention behind it, and enjoy a coffee, crack a beer, whatever time of day it is for you. It doesn't have to have an agenda, You can just hang out with people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, i'm a big believer in that, and I'm constantly trying to create this feedback loop where I'm asking and soliciting the members of my community, like what's working and what's not? What else can we introduce in this community to add more value? What things do we need to dial back on? Like, there's quite a bit of ideas that I have, but you can easily flood people with too much information too, and then simultaneously listening for common threads as to what people's pain points are and then figuring out how can I facilitate getting them a solution to that. And so I agree completely that you have to let the needs of the community and the desires of the people in the community to kind of drive the boat here as to what this thing becomes, because otherwise it's not really a community, is it? It's more like hey, i've created this subscription thing that you pay me for and I tell you what to do.

Speaker 2:

Right, exactly, and that's. I see so many people confusing a subscription based newsletter with a community. I'm like that's like saying that you own a business and you're in NLM marketing. You know, yeah, very kind of close, very different, right, very different.

Speaker 1:

I do wish there was a better word than community. Not that I'm against the word community, but it's become a buzzword And you know if you ask 10 different people what that word means, you're going to get 10 different responses.

Speaker 1:

So, that one. I haven't cracked that nut yet exactly how to do it. The closest thing I've got is calling what we're doing more of a membership and community. I think there's some advantages there, but even still, that's a little nebulous And, frankly, i'm still. This is still early on for me. I keep telling people I'm building the airplane while flying the airplane here, which is both exciting and terrifying at the same time, you know. So I don't know exactly what it's going to turn into, but I do know that if you just show up every day and you listen to what people are up against, you find ways to support them and you find ways to help them overcome their challenges. That's valuable, right, and the thing that I wished I had had, like you said that is my touchstone is like did I wish I had this? Yes, okay, then do it. No, then skip it, right, there's no time for that.

Speaker 2:

Right, i definitely grapple with a lot of English words for things, being bilingual or growing up bilingual. One of the things that I've noticed growing up is that English is a very mechanical language. It's very rational, it's very logic based. It's very helpful for, like the STEM fields, very terrible at describing human emotion, feeling stuff like that. Like, for example, like the, we have the word love, right, but then the Greeks have things like agape or amore. You know there's like nine different types of love in the ancient Greek syntax, but English we just have the one word.

Speaker 2:

More like, in Slovak there's this phrase called Dobryzduch, which means Literal translation is good air, but it means this, like sensation or feeling that you get when you're outside immediately proceeding a thunderstorm, the winds picking up, the clouds are swirling, the energy is in the air and that wind hits your face and you take a deep breath.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's cool.

Speaker 2:

You know. So, like, how do you describe that? But if you were to say doh-bri-duh, that's like good air. If you're a slowbock like you, get that whole picture painted in your head.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

And for me, there's something. It's not community right, there's something beyond it. Community is the word that we have to describe this thing, but it's really this place where I can feel vulnerable but also be held accountable if I'm being like too much, if I'm being overly vulnerable or I'm like creating a victim mentality in my head you know, But also with that accountability comes tact and respectfulness and you know, there's this mutual respect, there's this reciprocity If I put into the community, the community is going to put into me.

Speaker 2:

You know, like with your version with the hot seat, it's like I might be the person in the hot seat, i might be a panelist, but I might get my turn in the hot seat where I need to learn on the community to help you with the problem, and there's so many things that go into that that, yeah, one word that is sadly becoming a buzzword being used by sales teams to describe subscription-based bullshit, to like a newsletter or a course program.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Speaker 2:

It's like that's not what it is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, you're right. There's two challenges. One is the word getting watered down, and two is the definition of the word itself doesn't paint the full picture.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

So what we need to do, then, is just find the Greek word or some other language that sums all of that up somehow, and then do name the community. Some spin off of that. Now you got your anchor.

Speaker 2:

There we go. I'll be able to trace it back to this episode. We're like that's where we scaled it. That's right.

Speaker 1:

Well, i guess it's like an African proverb or something that you've probably heard, but they say you know, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Right, and it's like I think that's not one word, but it is one, you know, it's like a good one liner that really does start to capture that, because you start to visualize, you know, going on a journey where you might not get there as quickly as if you were by yourself, but there's safety in numbers, not just physical safety, but mental and emotional safety too, right, and looking out for each other, and that everybody brings something to the picnic, so to speak. It's not just a bunch of people following one person. Like that's not what I'm about. I want us as a group to succeed. Like that's I want to. Not to get too philosophical, but it's like I see entrepreneurship as the ticket. Like if you're currently lower class, this is how you're going to get to the middle class. If you're currently middle class, this is how you're going to get to upper class.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

And not even just financial, but like whatever you define success, as I think entrepreneurship is your best bet to get there, if you're fit for it, right.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Your chances of getting there just working for somebody else Not that good. You know now I'm biased, so anybody listening to this take what I say with a grand assault, but I think I got a lot of firsthand experience, but then I know a lot of people who would, who would testify to that being the case, and so my mission really is, like you know, compared to when I was doing computer support. you know, fixing people's computers and printers and stuff is not the most fulfilling job in the world, which I know is shocking, probably here. But this, though, is like man, if I can have us even this, the small hand, and like helping someone succeed as an entrepreneur, and then maybe multiply that a thousand times over. That's like really exciting to me, because you can see the impact it has on people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and the best community leaders that I've met and the ones that I really look up to in this space. It's been funny to me after being head of community here for the last year and realizing you know, when you're on the outside looking in the others people that you look up to, and then when you get into the space, there's people that you look up to for completely different reasons, kind of similar to the whole entrepreneurial journey. Like I used to really look up to these large, flashy entrepreneurs and now I really look up to the humble, you know workers that empower their teams so well that they don't even need to exist at the forefront of their companies And the culture is still badass.

Speaker 1:

I'm like whoa, you know that's something more powerful than the Eagle's metric. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's so, totally is, And the community managers that I really look up to at this point are the ones that have decreased the amount of space between something that their community feels is right for them and then building that thing for the community.

Speaker 2:

They're almost like this It's. It's a weird balance because it's at some point you have to be a mirror to the community and mirror those things back to them, and then at other times you have to tell them no and stay true to the vision that you have for the community, because you know that something is going to be detrimental for something that maybe that community member doesn't know or have access to, because you're listening to a hundred community members instead of just one, and that gets tough and you have to be able to both be that kind of. You know, if we're looking at building civilizations, you're both kind of like the police force and the head of the union at the same time. You're the, you're the business owner and the advocate for the community and you have to kind of grapple back and forth with that.

Speaker 2:

But the best ones are always asking questions. They're not perfect at it. They screw up. They build things for the community that they don't need. They adapt them, they scrap them, they build new things. Sometimes they miss a conversation that would have been so simple to have, but you know, in retrospect it was so obvious, but they can't believe that they missed it And other times they hit the nail on the head and their community loves it And the thread has 87 comments on it or you know whatever that looks like. But it's the people that are willing to be in the arena, that are willing to ask the questions, that are willing to have those meetings, that are willing to look stupid or silly sometimes in front of people, like one of my sticks is dancing on zoom calls to get people hyped up. Like do I look goofy as hell? in every single recording that we've ever posted, yes, and every single time I get feedback from people that we need, john, to introduce our zoom calls from now on.

Speaker 1:

And like right. It's funny, i think that totally depends on your ability to dance, though, hey, there's some people who are like please turn your video off and don't ever do that again. I would be one of you to be one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, i love everything that you're talking about. I love what you're building. If people want to learn more about what you're building, or they are a first generation entrepreneur and they'd be interested in becoming a part of your community like, where is the best place for them to do that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, i want to be very cautious about how I do this one, because a few weeks ago I was on another podcast that has a pretty sizable following and he asked me the same question and I completely bungled it. I was just like get in touch with me on LinkedIn. And it was like afterward like good grief, dude, What was I thinking Like? so my website is first genbiz.

Speaker 1:

So if you can see this on video one, the number one, stgenbiz. Just go there And then I know that that website whether you're listening to this, you know, the day after we've recorded, or five years from now, that site is probably going to evolve and change and be a completely different animal, but I think that that's the place to go If you want to get in touch with me or learn more about the community, we'll be able to do it there.

Speaker 2:

Cool, cool, and I'll make sure that I include that link in the show description for anyone that's listening. And then, if you always as always, i mean you know if you've been listening to this show for any like the time, you know that my DMs are always open. My emails are always open. I enjoy talking to y'all Because at this point I'm used to all of your shenanigans and I'm not like blowing up somebody else's inbox. So if you have any additional follow up questions or you think that I should bring Andrew on again for another episode in the future, i always love having repeats back on to do more Q&A sessions, to maybe get some direct Q&A. You've gotten the chance to hear a little bit about his story today, but that doesn't mean that it has to be his last time coming to visit. So if you want to have him back, make sure that you make that recommendation as well. And until next time.

Speaker 2:

This has been another episode of the Apex podcast. I hope that everybody listening has a great, whether it's morning, afternoon or wherever time it is that you're listening to this currently. I appreciate you coming to hang out with us. If you haven't hit the little bell for the subscription button yet, i'm watching. I know what the numbers are as far as people that listen. It doesn't always match up to the number of people that are subscribed and it drives me bonkers. So hit that little button and save me a little bit of sanity.